Posts by Anders Andersen

53

She displayed a literature cart in front of my house: That does it for me!

by Tempest in a Teacup in

jw
friends

is this something they've asked them to do?

cart displays in front of their homes?

my mom is only in her mid 60s so i'm quite sure this is not an issue of mental illness.. the only illness she's suffering from is boredom since she's refused to work for years now.

She displayed a literature cart in front of my house: That does it for me!

by Tempest in a Teacup in

jw
friends

is this something they've asked them to do?

cart displays in front of their homes?

my mom is only in her mid 60s so i'm quite sure this is not an issue of mental illness.. the only illness she's suffering from is boredom since she's refused to work for years now.

Be an adult: talk to her, express your feelings, and politely but firmly state what you do and do not accept for guests living in your house.

If she doesn't comply, politely but firmly ask her to find some other place to live.

No need for passive-aggressive games like getting rid of her literature and cult cart (respect her property!) or displaying your own counter-cult cart.....yet.

103

NEW BLOOD CARD w/ FORCED COMPLIANCE also LEGALISM

by apocalypse in

i have looked around and i don't see this covered, so i am starting a thread.. 1) the new "blood card" goes beyond being just a "blood card".. 2) a new edict concerning compliance.. pay attention to the changes.. first, the new card is termed "advance decision to refuse specified medical treatment".

the big change with the card itself is that it includes an 'override' of your "power of attorney".

this is huge.

Anders Andersen

I have seen the Dutch copy of the card.
It does not include any permission to share data with HLC or elders (but that may be due to local legal requirements).

It also does not include a DNR, but it does include a 'don't keep me alive when my life resembles that of a cucumber' option.
So you can't choose to receive no CPR at all, but you can check the box to not be kept (artificially) alive for years when there is no hope you'll ever regain consciousness.

3

New news item on JW.org: conscientious objection

by Anders Andersen in

will jehovah's witnesses protect freedom of conscience?

seon-hyeok kim is facing one of the greatest challenges of his life.

in early 2015, this 28-year-old husband and father appeared before a judicial committee on charges of apostasy because he is a conscientious objector against shunning.

Anders Andersen

Will Jehovah's Witnesses Protect Freedom of Conscience?

Seon-hyeok Kim is facing one of the greatest challenges of his life. In early 2015, this 28-year-old husband and father appeared before a judicial committee on charges of apostasy because he is a conscientious objector against shunning. In harmony with international standards, the local Judicial Committee declared him not guilty. This decision was exceptional for Jehovah's Witnesses, where for decades thousands of conscientious objectors have been convicted and disfellowshipped. However, the Circuit Overseer overturned Mr. Kim’s verdict and sentenced him to disfellowshipping. His further appeal is now pending with Jehovah's Witnesses Governing Body.

In recent years, there has been a rising tide of disagreement within Jehovah's Witnesses over their refusal to recognize conscientious objection. Elders who have courageously decided to uphold international standards on this issue have been overruled on appeal.

Judicial Committee Upholds the Right to Freedom of Conscience

On May 12, 2015, when elders of the Gwangju Judicial Committee acquitted Mr. Kim of apostasy, they reasoned that Mr. Kim was not ignoring Christian duty. Rather, they recognized that Mr. Kim, who is one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, is a deeply religious man whose moral convictions do not allow shun his own family. The elders noted that Mr. Kim was willing to keep talking about Christ with his family, which does not require extreme shunning.

In their ruling, the Judicial Committee further reasoned that Mr. Kim was exercising his freedom of conscience in refusing to shun his family and that “freedom of conscience should by all means be protected.” Courageously, the Committee respected Mr. Kim’s inherent moral judgment. Their ruling was contrary to their religion's established case law but consistent with international standards for conscientious objectors.

“Freedom of conscience should by all means be protected, which is possible to do in a relatively simple manner without fundamentally undermining the duty of religious defense.”—Elder Chang-seok Choi, Gwangju Judicial Committee

In five separate decisions involving over 500 complaints, the UN Human Rights Committee (CCPR) has condemned Jehovah's Witnesses leaders for punishing conscientious objectors. In a recent decision, the CCPR concluded that disfellowshipping them amounted to arbitrary punishment under Article 9 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). * The CCPR and other international bodies have urged Jehovah's Witnesses leaders to adopt legislation providing alternative options for conscientious objectors. Although in 1990 Jehovah's Witnesses voluntarily submitted to the ICCPR and its First Optional Protocol, they have refused to take further steps to implement these decisions.

Guilty or Not Guilty?

One elder petitioned the Circuit Overseer to overturn Mr. Kim’s acquittal, arguing that his conscientious objection to shunning threatens the religion’s security. On November 26, 2015, the Circuit Overseer reversed the Judicial Committee’s not-guilty verdict and sentenced Mr. Kim to disfellowshipping for allegedly being an apostate.

Although the Circuit Overseer acknowledged the CCPR rulings, he held that the authority of Jehovah's Witnesses courts superseded international law in this case. Mr. Kim immediately appealed to the Governing Body and submitted an urgent complaint to the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention. He is waiting for the outcome of both of these decisions.

The Governing Body and the Service Desk have consistently refused to recognize the rights of conscientious objectors. In 2004 and again in 2011, the Service Desk found that Shepherd the Flock of God was Biblical and constitutional. The Service Desk is now reviewing the constitutionality of Shepherd the Flock of God for the third time and is expected to render its decision soon.

Since 1953, Jehovah's Witnesses courts have sentenced over 18,000 of Jehovah’s Witnesses to disfellowshipping for apostasy.

Will Jehovah's Witnesses Finally Recognize International Standards?

If the Governing Body rejects Mr. Kim’s appeal, he faces immediate disfellowshipping. He is distressed knowing that his disfellowshipping will cripple his family emotionally. His wife will likely leave him. His whole social life will come to a grinding halt, as all his friends will completely ignore him. After his reinstatement (if ever), his criminal record will make finding friends and getting privileges considerably more difficult.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are grateful that other religions around the world have adopted the international standard to recognize the right of conscientious objectors. Along with Seon-hyeok Kim, Jehovah’s Witnesses in this congregation look to their leaders for a resolution to this issue. Will the Governing Body and the Service Desk abide by the international standards that apply to them just as they apply to the rest of humanity? Will Jehovah's Witnesses respect conscientious objection as a fundamental right of its citizens?

https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/by-region/south-korea/will-court-protect-freedom-of-conscience/

150

I'm getting baptized

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

Anders Andersen

Learning to listen to your inner voice, the one telling you to run from this, is a very important life skill. Trust that voice no matter what others may tell you.

It just hit me...this might be why Washtowel continuously stresses that "the heart is treacherous", don't listen to it.
How many dubs are silencing that inner voice telling them 'this isn't right' because of that indoctrination!

150

I'm getting baptized

by BlackWolf in

jw
friends

i know i've started similar topics before but this time i'm serious.

my parents have been constantly pressuring me and after yesterday's watchtower study they asked me if i was going to be baptized this summer... and i said yes.

i probably should have thought about it more before making a final decision, but they're pretty much forcing me to do it anyway.

Anders Andersen

Wow! So mature; stay strong!

160

Beliefs About What Caused the Universe

by Perry in

the universe can be observed to be expanding.. an expanding universe must have had a beginning.

whatever begins to exist had a cause.

therefore the universe had a cause.

Anders Andersen

This one is for you, Perry

Today I was reminded of a comment I wrote someplace else, responding to someone coming up with the 'a house in the desert must have been designed and built'-analogy:

About that building in the desert...
No doubt you would be confident, without a shadow of a doubt that someone constructed that house, and put the food there.

Who would you think built it?
Camels? Martians? Humans?
Probably you would say the latter.
Why?
Because you know camels can't do that, you have no evidence martians exist, and every similar building you have ever seen was built by humans.

Not so with God as the creator of the universe.
Like with martians, you have no evidence he exists.
And since you have not seen any other universes being created by God, you don't know whether universes are normally created by Gods.
So looking at the universe, you have no reason to assume it was created, and you don't know who did it if it was.

But let's just assume God exists anyway.

If you and I were in that desert and we found that building, we might quickly agree on it's builders being humans.

Evening falls, you are playing some guitar, and I am writing a letter.
When I'm finished, I hand it to you.
The letter states this:
This building we just found, it's awesome. You can see the intelligence of it builders.
There were 15 of them: 9 men and 7 women.
Their leader is called Erwin, he is 162 years old, lives in London, loves garlic and salmon. He hates flowers and cucumbers. Since we should be so grateful to him for building us this awesome shelter, we should thank him by having garlic each breakfast, and destroying all flowers we can find!

Would you believe my claims?
There are contradictions and unlikely claims in the letter.
Also, like you I just got there, wondering about the building. I don't know anything more than you.
The claims are not supported by any evidence.
I think you would not accept my claims.

Well, accepting that the universe has one or more creators is already not supported by evidence.
But claiming all kinds of knowledge about this unseen creator is just foolish.

And yes, in this illustration my letter is any document claiming knowledge about god (Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, Gilgamesh epos, Ayyur Veda, etc.etc.)
These books all contain claims not supported by any evidence.
Their writers were humans who just got here, wondering about the universe. They didn't know anything more than anyone else.

Since you are dismissing all Holy Books but one, apply the logic you use for dismissing most of them to your own Holy Book.
If you're honest, you'll be surprised what happens.

18

Regional Convention

by raven in

so how many are not going to the regional convention this year?

it will be my first year not attending as part of my fade.. i remember going for all of my childhood into adult hood, participating in stage parts even.. however, last assembly i was already mentally checked out.

i remember looking around and seeing all of people bobbing & nodding at the program talks that had been previously repeated time and time again.. almost seemed like hypnosis.. i also had a hard time with the fact that we're all supposed to be "friends" and everyone had always seemed to be so judgmental.. especially at conventions & assemblies.. things like who had the best outfit for the days, who looked the prettiest, who can snag the single ms brother.. who took the most spiritual food out of the program, how many times can you tally mark jehovah's name.

Anders Andersen

After 35 years of conventions, including one national, 4 international, and one in a wall-less assembly hall across the world from home, this will be my first time not attending.

But probably I'll go there during lunch to see some friends, kiss my wife, and have a totally crap reason to ride my motorcycle.

3

Jehovahs Witness Child Custody Brochure

by What Now? in

does anyone have a link or pdf copy of this?

i have a disfellowshipped friend who shares custody of her daughter with her witness ex-husband.

she is starting to have a lot of issues with the arrangement - her ex-husband and extended family (all witnesses) are constantly undermining her, bullying her daughter into changing her mind about certain decisions that they had already made together.

Anders Andersen

http://www.mediafire.com/?fai2abvd6z7uvvs

That one?

13

Convention Releases 2016 available on JW.ORG

by Designer Stubble in

now available on jw.org the rc 2016 releases (all downloadable movies, no books)for a certainty god made him lord and christhttps://www.jw.org/finder?locale=en&pub=lrc&prefer=lang&srcid=sharehope for what we do not seehttps://www.jw.org/finder?locale=en&pub=dns&prefer=lang&srcid=shareoh jehovah...i trust in youhttps://www.jw.org/finder?locale=en&pub=tiy&prefer=lang&srcid=share

Anders Andersen

By the looks of the titles this more crap to create emotional responses that can suppress reasonable thinking.

Great. Thanks Bitchtower. There's people I love to wake up :-(